Awwww. Maybe if people actually had been reading the news they may have seen this coming. Now it’s only the leopards.
Which news? The one that downplayed everything he said, or the one that never mentioned a single thing he said?
Yes ofc I saw this coming when the dems decided to support genocide. Another loser candidate. Who could be surprised?
People here still blaming this on minority voters are deafeningly silent on party leadership holding the coalition hostage over AIPAC funding
Stop directing your anger at people being robbed of basic representation instead of political actors who are gleefully accepting blood money to turn against their constituents and a blind eye to genocide
Please elaborate what the party leadership could’ve done differently to not alienate the other voting blocks mentioned.
They could have defended the lives of Palestinians and acknowledged that the genocide was happening.
It was Biden’s press secretary and SOS who got up on a podium everyday and assured the press and those “other voters” that Israel wasn’t doing anything wrong. They drew that line themselves, not anyone who was protesting the genocide.
It was Biden’s press secretary and SOS who got up on a podium everyday and assured the press and those “other voters” that Israel wasn’t doing anything wrong.
How short is your memory?
Biden expressed disapproval multiple times.
https://apnews.com/article/biden-netanyahu-3591fb5f82b22cf8e5d1060fccaef115
https://www.axios.com/2024/10/17/biden-netanyahu-sinwar-gaza-war
Whether intentional or not, you are spreading misinformation. The same kind that got Trump and Musk into the Oval Office. And people are upvoting you. Congrats.
Biden tells Netanyahu it’s time to end Gaza war
This one is kinda funny to me because people interpret trump saying nearly the same words is evidence of his genocidal intent.
But none of those ‘statements of disapproval’ conveys the severity of their literal fucking war crimes and genocide, which would be a minimum (I would think) to convince a skeptical zionist voter that maybe some intervention is justified. Not to mention that Harris repeatedly refused to commit to withholding lethal aid every time she was asked during her candidacy.
There’s no reality in which the U.S. was going to seriously jeopardize its relationship with our closest ally in the middle east.
Americans had two options:
A side that expressed disapproval of Israel’s actions and floated stopping arms shipments, which Biden floated.
Or
A side with a guy who literally said Israel should finish the job and is now saying he wants to turn Gaza into a vacation destination.
I’ll let you do the math.
And this is how trump got elected. Have some self awareness and knowledge of game theory.
Why do you criticize regular people about game theory and not the actual people crafting the strategy to win an election?
Because regular adults should be responsible enough to see through blatant manipulation by blatantly bad actors. And if they can’t, that’s no one else’s fault but their own.
That’s not an answer to why you hold regular people to account for their actions but not the politicians and strategists actually running the campaign.
Also it wasn’t “manipulation”. The genocide actually happened.
He’s literally spreading misinformation and I posted links to prove it.
And he’s being upvoted and you’re being downvoted. Which makes your comment even more poignant. Fucking internet man. Humans simply weren’t ready for it.
I find arguments that the non-voters shouldn’t be blamed for Trump because party leadership didn’t properly encourage them to vote for Harris idiotic. Everyone has a duty to educate themselves about their vote. Shifting blame to the DNC is both patronizing and destructive. The DNC sucks… You know who else sucks? people who didn’t stand up against Trump. Those people are grown ass adults who actively helped a fascist by doing nothing but bitch.
I find arguments that the non-voters shouldn’t be blamed […] idiotic
Please elaborate what the party leadership could’ve done differently to not alienate the other voting blocks
These two sentences are in contradiction
Here, see if you can spot the double standard:
“The [voters] suck… You know who else sucks? [the DNC] who didn’t stand up against [Israel]. Those people are grown ass adults who actively helped a fascist by doing nothing but bitch.”
A-Fucking-Men
We know they’re war-criminals. There’s still a difference between that and leveling the place for a hotel. Trump gleefully accepted $100m from Adelson for the west bank.
Stop assuming we’re pro-dems and not just anti-trump.
Gaza is fully leveled and Trump had nothing to do with it.
Not yet it isn’t and yes, he did. He announced it the other day. The ethnic clensing of 2M people
I’m not assuming you’re pro-dems, I’m pointing out that their loss is entirely attributable to their own political mis-calculation on top of their efforts to gaslight Americans about their roll and knowledge of the crimes being committed on their behalf.
Blaming voters for reacting to the Democrats’ policy decisions - including the moderates they alienated - is simply yet another attempt to obscure the facts that lead us to this moment.
Probably more to do with the mass delusion and post truth world we live in.
And yes, enabling the greater evil is a failing of the people who voted against their interests because less evil wasn’t good enough.
enabling the greater evil is a failing of the people who voted against their interests
Democrats enabled the greater evil by ignoring the interests of the constituencies they needed to win. It doesn’t matter if the lesser evil is objectively the right choice - they still need millions of people to go to the booth and make that choice, and nobody has more control over voter enthusiasm than the democrats themselves.
This is nobody’s fault but the democrats.
Individuals are reponsible for their actions. They didn’t need to support the dems just have a spine and vote against Trump.
Democrats enabled the greater evil by ignoring the interests of the constituencies they needed to win.
Because they didn’t cut ties with Israel? There’s no reality in which America is going to break up with their most important ally in the Middle East. Did you want Democrats to lie that they’d break ties so they could win and then go back on that promise? Flip flopping like that is what leads a country to having exactly zero allies.
I guess they had faith in Americans to be informed enough to know that despite not being perfect, they’re INFINITELY better than Republicans. But that faith was 100% misplaced because Americans, my friend, are DUMB.
Because they didn’t cut ties with Israel?
Because - far from ‘cutting ties’ with Israel - they actively shielded them from international accountability and continued supplying them with the bombs they were (and are still) dropping on Palestinian children
That is literally the fucking opposite of how voting works. You only got two choices for a winner here Biden or trump and not voting Biden = trump.
You guys seem to think there’s a 3rd option here.
First past the post voting literally shows otherwise. You are a fool.
They did enable the greater evil, but it was voters who ultimately put them in office, not Democrats. The buck stops with the voters. Or it did - they made sure it won’t any more.
Stop assuming we’re pro-dems and not just anti-trump.
This is the shit that drives me nuts. No matter how many fucking times you explain it, they just cannot wrap their heads around this for some reason. Or they refuse to.
Votes for Dems completely unconditionally and demands others do the same "Why does everyone keep assuming we’re pro-Dem? Don’t they know that we send negative energy waves through our mind palaces towards zionist Dems all the time?"
Boy, I really love when people on the internet think they know a single fucking thing about me. Every conversation I have on here about this topic always ends up with the person making some ridiculous straw man. You have no real response, so you instead just create a shitty argument that nobody here made and then act all smug when you “shut it down.” It’s so predictable.
I have been on Lemmy for the grand total of one election, guy, how the fuck do you come to the conclusion that I, “vote for Dems completely unconditionally”? You fuckers are allergic to good faith discussion.
Oh, my mistake. So if you don’t vote for them unconditionally then you think it’s acceptable to place conditions on voting for them. Would you say that “not supporting genocide” is a reasonable condition, or do you draw the line at something worse than genocide?
Oh my God. You did it. You were right to keep trying because it worked, you’re 100% correct. Your incredibly deep and insightful analysis was extremely valuable. Good job.
It’s like you know me better than anyone else I’ve ever met. Would you like to exchange information? I have been in need of a new lover.
Nothing I’ve said has made any assumptions about you at all. I’m merely describing your express position. You’re using sarcasm as a cheap trick to mask your inability to defend it, but I’m not sure who you’re supposed to be fooling.
They aren’t regretting here yet. I make comments about it and get brigade against. Hey Dearborn Palestinians for Trump: you guys were completely ignorant, ignored everything that man said, and still held out hope he would be better for your people for some god known reason. Ya fucked up.
The election was three months ago. These constant attempts to relitigate it are just an attempt by the right to divide the left.
The truth is there is blame on both sides. Those who stayed home hold some responsibility, and the Biden admin is also to blame for shunning their own base.
But now we have bigger fish to fry. There’s a constitutional crisis on, and a united front is needed against the right. Fuck the dividers. When someone tries to divide the left, call them out on it or downvote them to hell. They’re either a conservative or a Russian troll.
The right didn’t need help to divide the left this election. The left did it itself. The American left splintered into toxic little sub groups who all hated each other, saw each other as unworthy allies and called each other fascists for being even slightly right or even left of each other. Meanwhile the right was unified and laughing at the left who so easily felll for the right’s manufactured war
Yeah. There were a lot of people saying they wouldn’t vote for Biden or Harris due to one issue, even though Trump wouldn’t be an improvement on that one issue they wouldn’t vote for Biden on.
Now they’re angry that Democrats have very little power to resist Trump.
There were even more people blaming any criticism of the DNC as an act to support Trump, so go ahead and continue fracturing your support base even after losing the election. I’m sure that’ll help you fight against fascism.
Those who stayed home hold some responsibility
Second most of the responsibility, actually (actual Trump voters take the most responsibility). They screwed up, and now we’re all paying the price.
But now we have bigger fish to fry. There’s a constitutional crisis on, and a united front is needed against the right.
Also true. If Trump voters and non-voters realize that they screwed up badly and want to work to fix it, then we need to accept their apology, forgive them, and let them stand with the rest of civilized humanity in countering Trump, Must, and their goons.
They will never realize this. They think game theory isn’t real and voting 3rd party means they’re better than Dems even though they enabled trump. It’s the worst virtue signaling possible. Gaza will pay the price for their hubris.
You’re scapegoating 40,000 people who have lost family members in the genocide for not voting for the killers and using Dearborn as a slur at this point. Less people voted for Trump there than the national average. Keep proving you’re a Nazi.
“Not voting for the killers” is REALLY a stretch here.
Honestly if Palestine is your one and only policy, not voting was the right choice.
It was well known from Trump’s first term, and everything the man has ever said, that he would encourage attacks on Palestinians vs the Dems who simply stood by and let it happen.
There’s a big difference between not voting for someone who won’t help and actually voting for someone who hates you and will unapologeticly help your enemy kill you.
There’s a big difference between not voting for someone who won’t help and actually voting for someone who hates you and will unapologeticly help your enemy kill you.
This isn’t what happened though. What we got was a vote between someone who will apologize while helping your enemy kill you, and someone who will help your enemy gleefully. The outcome is the same either way, one just has better optics.
