In light of plans to introduce this policy and the particular circumstances surrounding some boxers that competed at the Paris 2024 Olympic Games, World Boxing has written to the Algerian Boxing Federation to inform it that Imane Khelif will not be allowed to participate in the female category at the Eindhoven Box Cup or any World Boxing event until Imane Khelif undergoes sex testing.
Fucking assholes. From what is known about their sex test, it is similarly scientific to the “I know it when I see it” rule from the 1960s to determine if something is obscene. In other words, utter bullshit.
And all of this pretending to care about women while at the same time you have abuse scandals in sports every five minutes that never seem to have real consequences or result in positive change for the athletes.
Yeah, I don’t believe you one bit when you say you want to protect women.
Just like penis inspection day in gym class
Ah good times. I wonder why coach needed to take pictures though.
I’ve been trying to make “You’re a regular Imane Khelif!” happen (e.g. you’re a superwoman). Or “That hits like Imane Khelif”. Don’t let shitheads write her narrative, you care more than they do, so drop it if you get a chance.
The peak of being afraid of girls
World Boxing has written to the Algerian Boxing Federation to inform it that Imane Khelif will not be allowed to participate in the female category at the Eindhoven Box Cup or any World Boxing event until Imane Khelif undergoes sex testing.
Phew, that was close, they almost had to pick a pronoun.
Nice; how much sex do they need to have to pass the test?
It isn’t about the quantity. Its about the quality.
at least fifty thrusts
So like 5 theherk sex units.
They’re gonna discover the same thing they did in the Olympics that made them stop testing.
It was making people uncomfortable how many of them had the wrong sex assigned at birth.
Women and men who had lived their entire lives as one sex realized they actually had the chromosomes for the opposite sex.
There were stages and layers of sex testing within Olympics history, and every time they got mis-classifications they weren’t expecting.
We figured out by the 50s that a gender binary was not imperically proveable. Too many variables that varied seperate from each other and often conflicted with each other.
The irony if transphobia founders over cis gender dysphoria will be breathtaking.
what does this sentence even mean
Foundering means failure or defeat. It’s originally a nautical term for sinking IIRC.
Cis gender dysphoria would be what a cis person feels when they get kicked out of their assigned-at-birth gender, like is being described. Cis being the opposite of trans.
If anti-trans activists can’t handle gender dysphoria, a major challenge which trans people face, that’s ironic.
What? Really? Didnt know this.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_verification_and_intersex_athletes_at_the_Olympic_Games
The history of sex testing for sports is really interesting, for me it’s interesting because despite almost 100 years of the practice not a single “male imposter” has ever been found.
And I was mistaken. Like another comment on this post says they just stopped testing in men’s sports.
That is really interesting
So much pointless and cruel bullshit over fucking sport, and one of the stupidest sports no less.
Yes, this is the cruel part, not the part where the point is to punch the other person until they have enough trauma they lose consciousness.
Not allowing biological men to punch biological women until they fall down? That’s the real fascism.
Put a male In with female boxing and see how fair the match ends. It’s not about cruelty it’s about basic muscular differences between sexes.
Edit: Even after transition surgery the muscle gain/loss is not significant enough to be an appropriate excuse.
They’re specifically targeting Imane Khelif, a female in female boxing.
By claiming that she isn’t actually a woman, and therefore shouldn’t be fighting other women.
yikes I cannot believe your name 😬 you’re basically spouting off right wing anti trans propaganda.
I’d suggest you learn a bit more about transitioning, trans women are not just dudes in dresses. and medical transition destroys theuscle gains you get from being a dude.
I can tell you this first hand, I went from jacked dude bro to not even being able to open a jar.i have to asky bf these days LMAO. by the way, professional women athletes can comfortably destroy any random guy, it’s honestly insulting to have this conversation as if it’s anything but more senseless rage bait to paint targets on our backs.
nobody understands just what transitioningeams or what it does, how sex works
how cis women can literally have testosterone just like a cis guy…like it’s all just hate
also I guarantee moone says shit about trans men in male sports it’s literally just hate. if they really cared about fairness they’d do testing for hormone levels and weight differences and class everyone fairly regardless of sex lol.
I sincerely can’t wait for all the broken brains after this Argentinian chiccs test results come back. it’s so fucking cruel what they are saying about her. to suggest she is trans just. because she makes a bunch of weak minded people feel insecure in their understandings of how biology works lol
bein trans is not allowed in Argentina, she’s just masculine cis woman, and I’m sure these cronies know this, they just want to take every opportunity to pass judgement on women specifically under some virtue signalling bullshit
they don’t care about fairness if they did Imsurance companies wouldn’t happily deny a cancer victim. they wouldn’t get off on struggling students whoe graduated sid everything right and still end up homeless
it’s all just silly imo, we’re so pathetic as a species sometimes it makese sad
I’m just being pedantic, but she’s from Algeria, not Argentina.
Otherwise, appreciate your perspective. Hormone changes are like magic!
yikes I cannot believe your name 😬 you’re basically spouting off right wing anti trans propaganda.
When did you become so stupid was it at birth or did you hit your head recently? Fascism is a consequence of far right policy gone unchecked, so in what world does my user name reading “FuckFascism” have anything remotely to do with “spouting off right wing anti trans propaganda”?
Why wouldn’t they then measure testosterone levels instead? What if a trans man fights a woman, because he has a vagina? Is that a fair fight?
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I’d rather fight Tate than Khelif, that’s for sure. One of the two knows how to move, the other one knows how to be angry.
Your feelings aside this is insane. Tate was a 4x world kickboxing champion at light heavyweight. He’d demolish you with one hand tied behind his back
Tate’s record was heavily inflated and after he got one that looked good he stopped fighting because it had served its purpose, and he wasn’t a world champion of anything certified by an organization that actually means anything
I’m not saying you’re wrong necessarily, but one of these people just came off winning an Olympic medal and the other basically won one title and retired
He might – I doubt with one hand, but in any case the point is not that I’d be keen on fighting either, the point is that Tate would be an easier fight than Khelif. Tate does have the capacity, in principle, to be a good fighter (e.g. you can see is kinaesthetic sense in action when he’s dancing, and he does have grit), he could have achieved titles that mean anything to anyone instead of being world champion of beating up complete amateurs and then promptly retiring. Alas, his neuroses are in the way. Lots of show, lots of bluster, dangerous in the sense that a rabid dog is dangerous because, as said, he knows how to be angry. Khelef? Calm, clean, methodical, keeps her centre, actually thinks in the ring. Whole different league, and nothing to do with raw strength. Strength doesn’t do shit when you suck at the rest.
Again this is just delusional. I’m no Tate fanboy but I follow combat sports and train regularly - he’s like 30kg heavier than her and he’s got legit world class skill.
Don’t believe me? Listen to the MMA goat Demetrius Johnson himself break down some footage https://youtu.be/NMwuAut8JJc
So much more fun if you believe it to be a test of skill instead of the depressing reality.
Meanwhile in the near future: world boxing to end needless sex testing to save costs.
Looks like I need to post this again.
Dang. It’s almost like determining someone’s sex is hard to do.
That’s a nice infographic, but must we not draw a vertical line somewhere on that spectrum to say what is allowed in women’s sport? It seems unreasonable to allow everything on the spectrum as women’s sports would be dominated by people from the male end of the spectrum.
Sure, but do you think that’s the test they’re doing? Are they testing for the various SRY mutations? Multiple X chromosomes? Multiple Y? Genes that impact hormone regulation?
There are certainly issues with sport categories that are designed to be for something other than the elite in their field, but I don’t expect nuance from the same groups that banned a boxer because she wasn’t sufficiently attractive.
Sure, but do you think that’s the test they’re doing?
I mean they state right there what kind of test they are doing (but perhaps you didn’t read it or missed that part?):
all athletes over the age of 18 that want to participate in a World Boxing owned or sanctioned competition will need to undergo a PCR (polymerase chain reaction) genetic test to determine their sex at birth and their eligibility to compete.
The PCR test is a laboratory technique used to detect specific genetic material, in this case the SRY gene, that reveals the presence of the Y chromosome, which is an indicator of biological sex. The test can be a be conducted by nasal/mouth swab, saliva or blood.
So they are testing for the presence of the Y chromosome. Not sure if that covers any of the questions you asked there but presumably no. But again, we must draw the line somewhere and “presence of the Y chromosome” doesn’t seem to be an unreasonable way to determine that line - at the very least it sounds like a very unambiguous way to draw the line. But I am not an expert so I won’t speak with any confidence about this.
So this test probably won’t catch someone who is XY, but missing the SRY gene. I’m not sure if it will detect a mutated SRY gene, and I don’t pretend to be an expert. I also can’t be sure if thos test will catch someone who is XX with an SRY gene, which is also a thing, nor if it will catch XX/XY mosaicism. And those are the easy ones.
The fact of the matter is, internationally competitive athletes are a group of 0.1% or less, and people with abnormal sex genes, let alone abnormal genes in general, fall into the 0.5% to 1% category. What do you think the overlap is in two groups of outliers?
Edit: Extra reading. Note the 24 genetic variations (that we know of) that count as intersex.
What do you think the overlap is in two groups of outliers?
Well, seeing as people with abnormal sex genes may have an advantage in competitive women’s sports, you would actually expect to see a significant amount of that “outlier” group in the group of top athletes, as there is a selection happening. You’re right that if you chose independently at random from people who are top athletes and people who have abnormal sex genes, the overlap would be incredibly small. But sports is not a random selection at all. At the top of sports, even the smallest advantage means the difference between winning and losing, so even small variations (like those caused by abnormal sex genes) may give significant advantages (perhaps even “unfair” advantages).
And to that, I’ll reiterate my second paragraph previously.
There are certainly issues with sport categories that are designed to be for something other than the elite in their field, but I don’t expect nuance from the same groups that banned a boxer because she wasn’t sufficiently attractive.
Alpha bros gonna be real upset that the Typical biological male is a the pink end of the spectrum 😂
Do you have a higher res copy that isn’t so difficult to read?
I don’t, but I can provide an article with the infographic included.
This might work:
Thanks for sharing. I never seen it before.
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Just because the words are too big for you to understand doesn’t mean what they’re describing isn’t real.
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There is no idea to buy. Those are observed conditions on real bodies
Because numerous people around the world have been using cutting edge research for decades to study these things, observing their effects in actual people, means that I honestly don’t give a fuck if you “buy the idea”. Your feelings, opinions, and armchair assessments on this topic are worthless.
When modern scientists accept new understandings of things that is the science
We’re not in the 50s anymore, we now understand more than we did then.
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What specific element is pseudoscience?
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So, hormones don’t exist?
Intersex people don’t exist?
Trans people don’t exist?
And what, we’re all either 100% male or 100% female and there is never a grey area in biology?Don’t make the conscious decision to remain ignorant, you’re keeping yourself back.
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Yeah but that’s why they’re beliefs, and not science
stfu
So, you are arguing that SRY inactivation does not occur?
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Swyer means an XY female, as you are agreeing to now.
What is your definition for female?
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To an extent, I am okay with this. All it would take is one male beating the ever living shit out of a female for people to raise hell. I don’t see this as the males being afraid of the females, as much as boxing be afraid of the double standard consequences.
Woah dude you’re in danger of sounding like a bigot
/s
I care if a male fights a female about as much as I care if I get called a bigot or not. I don’t. I’m not a sensitive cuck like Trump or MAGA in general. I’m just sick of the fucking double standards for this shit. Not by the leagues, conference, division, whatever governing body. But by the masses. The US has already proven that that about 50% of the population are total morons. The masses are the ones that can’t handle male vs female in sports. If a female can fight males, go for it. Let’s do it and find the best. I just don’t want to hear shit when a male beats a female, or when a female beat a male…other than congrats and GG.
The international rise of the Cult of Naturalism and the growing prevalence of their ur-eugenics pseudoscience is horrifying to watch. Like so many other actively harmful ideologies and policies I don’t see any non-violent solutions.
To check whether they’ve had it recently or just ever?
Olympics testing sex means they will be testing women, and never men, it means they’ll come up with a test that requires different representatives of different competing nations to agree a woman doesn’t technically qualify as a woman despite her fully functioning uterus, and again they’ll be invasive and humiliating and poor countries will have twice or more disqualified athletes, they will go after women of color twice as hard, and the more extreme countries they send these women back to live in will treat these women horrifyingly bad.
In a way they do testing on men in sports all the time. They test for testosterone levels for one to see if the athlete is not utilizing Performance Enhancing Drugs (PEDs).
But I also haven’t read the article on the methodology they will be going to be utilizing.
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Source?
No both happen, people just have a much bigger problem when an assigned man transitions to woman.
Generally because the differences in male and female biology mean that ftm athletes are coming in at a disadvantage and only risk end up being hurt themselves by male athletes who generally have them at a disadvantage. Mtf athletes however, due to the aspects of male physiology that remain, have a higher likelihood of having an advantage over female athletes and also posing a danger to the other athletes. This is generally why most womens categories were introduced in the first place (female physical disadvantage).
Especially in martial arts and combat sports like boxing, which are already inherently dangerous, the physical safety of the athletes and protecting them must come above more ephemeral goals such as inclusion in my view.
As it stands with current day medical technology, there are limits to how close a transitioning individual can be changed to resemble the opposing gender.
Given how deep the differences are physiologically between the sexes with things such as lyonization I’m not entirely sure that it will ever be possible to fully transition a person outside of weird and ethically questionable future tech such as vat-growing a genetically modified clone and somehow transferring the consciousness of the person.
There are several cases in sports already where people who are born women and have a female phenotype and genotype, but have naturally higher levels of testosterone, who have been banned from competition.
The message they use is the they’re “protecting women” but it isn’t actually the goal. Often there aren’t any cases of transgender athletes outperforming their cis opponents, yet they still try to create these rules. It’s frequently actively harmful to many cisgendered women.
The problem with all of this is the “basic biology” crowd never learn that biology is really fucking complex. What they learn in grade school is not the totality of biology, yet they assume they must be experts and force their very limited and wrong views on other people. It’s bad and harmful and siding with them makes them feel all the more justified in their crusade of bullshit and misinformation.
I’m not particularly familiar with the politics of sports, nor am I particularly interested - as such I won’t comment on what their goals are. I am, however, very familiar with human biology and healthcare. 5 yrs of secondary + tertiary education familiar in addition to several years of work experience. You’ll unfortunately have to take my word for that. I don’t intend to dox myself with documentation.
With my outlook on the topic, it doesn’t seem like a “crusade of bullshit and misinformation”. Headline news, physiology and most importantly “data and medical evidence from an extensive range of sources and consulted widely with other sports and experts across the world” - as they claim. I don’t have time to personally look into that (sucks to have a life amirite) but am inclined to trust that they care for the athletes and have done due diligence. If you (or anyone else for that matter!) has material that disputes the validity of their work do feel free to link it in a reply. I and others I’m sure would be interested in reading such material.
Thanks.
Headline news, physiology and most importantly “data and medical evidence from an extensive range of sources and consulted widely with other sports and experts across the world” - as they claim. I don’t have time to personally look into that (sucks to have a life amirite) but am inclined to trust that they care for the athletes and have done due diligence.
Here’s the issue we have: you trust them because they put out a press release with this claim. I don’t, because it’s a press release. You want others to prove them wrong instead of needing them to prove they’re right.
I’m sure there’s some truth to the statement, but did they actively look at the points made by the opposition and weigh it all? There’s no claim for this here even, and even if there were I wouldn’t trust it implicitly. To be scientific you need to actively try to disprove your assumptions. If they still hold then cool, but you have to be critical.
At the end of the day, this is a business. They’re trying to make money. This is something that I’ll never just give my trust to. If they prove their claims then fine, but I’m going to assume all decisions are business decisions first, not the best decision for all athletes necessarily.
What are you talking about? This is not about transgender at all. For those you could require a birth certificate. This is targeting women that are born as girls but, due to genetic anomalies, do not appear as such on genetic tests. Many (most?) would never discover the genetic anomaly during their lifetime.
At least from what I’ve read previously, these rules changes are primarily related to incidents where female athletes have been severely injured when competing against mtf athletes - but it’s long been a contentious issue. As is often the case, when rules are changed/implemented they end up being broad and catching others in the crossfire.
It’s unfortunate that it’s ended up being necessary. However, there are many professions where people can’t work due to genetics or health (eyesight, cardiac issues etc.) and athletics in general is already a field highly affected by genetics. C’est la vie…
For Christmas’s sake, boxing is a combat sport. The whole point of combat sports is to incapacitate your opponent via violent means. Do you actually think safety is the real concern here? If it was, you’d think the focus would be on better equipment, rule changes, rule enforcement, etc., not the (largely irrelevant) existence of a Y chromosome in an athlete’s genome.
Again, mtf or any transgender issue can be solved with birth certificates. It doesn’t require genetic testing. Genetic testing is targeted at humans that according to all our traditional laws and practices are treated as female, yet may potentially be banned from female sports.
Some countries permit people to have the gender on their birth certificate changed after transition, which unfortunately renders your suggestion moot. Also from the wording in the article I think the testing will be applied to male athletes also.
Testing for chromosomes in this day and age is also quite simple and rather cheap. The main issue really is how privacy is handled. Personally I wouldn’t want to have to be subjected to a gene test for a job.
[citation needed]
…from the article
… to ensure the safety of all participants and deliver a competitive level playing field for men and women.
…which has examined data and medical evidence from an extensive range of sources and consulted widely with other sports and experts across the world.
This decision reflects concerns over the safety and wellbeing of all boxers, including Imane Khelif, and aims to protect the mental and physical health of all participants…
…and another citation for good measure.
That’s just World Boxing’s statement, it’s not actually substantiating any of their claims.
