I would like to buy myself a second hand and install Linux on it. I was looking into ThinkPad T14 gen1 or gen2 devices because of their maintainability and repairability. I found one where I live with a Ryzen processor but it has the wrong keyboard. How easy and expensive would it be to swap this with US English? Are there any good alternatives to the ThinkPads? I fancy the X1 but don’t like the fact that I cannot change or swap anything on it. The T14 looks very bulky and unattractive but at least can have the RAM upgraded and the battery changed.
I fancy the Framework laptops, but don’t want to spend so much on a laptop. Especially the latest 16 inch with Ryzen AI CPUs.
The T14 G1 is at least cheap, like 350€ with the 400 nits low power display and the battery is at 99%. I guess with tlp installed and autocpugfreq I can get 5-6 hours out of it.
Well, global keyboard has 1 key more, so I wouldn’t worry about it.
I really like my 2019 thinkpad x1 carbon for coding/light gaming. It runs vms pretty well as well. It cost me $250 a couple years ago used off of eBay.
I found a good T14 gen 1 with Ryzen CPU and 400 nits low-power display, but I read that the 4650U CPUs don’t support amd-pstate and only auto-cpufreq, meaning that it will affect negatively the battery life. The T14 gen 2 are unfortunately with the 300 nits display, which is quite mediocre. How much worse the battery would be on the gen1?
I can’t find any proper tests on the matter but here’s someone with the Thinkpad X13 with the same CPU answering the battery question.
https://old.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/x4nevt/perfect_laptop_x13_gen_1_amd_ubuntu_2204/ioibywd/That’s actually better than I thought though. I am also tempted into a 16:10 aspect ratio, but that’s only on the third gen which is unfortunate. Thanks for the link.
At framework, only the desktop and the 13 offer Ryzen AI options.
That said, my 16 is plenty powerful enough.
True that, and I generally prefer bigger screens. As I said what I don’t like is the price.
Thinkpads and Framework are top tier. Then there’s the “Linux first brands” like System76 and Tuxedo. All of those will work flawlessly.
Then the “generally work well with Linux” like Acer, Lenovo, and Asus; maybe some HP, LG and Samsung. Then the “probably runs Linux fine, but it’s a weird brand” like Redmi, Chuwi, and Gateway.
Then the “avoid at all costs” like Dell, Apple, Microsoft Surface, a lot of HPs, and anything with a Qualcomm ARM processor.
Then the “avoid at all costs” like Dell
Must have gotten lucky then. Bought a used Dell about one and a half years ago. Everything worked out of the box
I think some of their business oriented laptops are fine, but every consumer model I’ve owned, I’ve had problems with. I can’t trust them anymore, especially since they marketed an XPS as working with Ubuntu, then later changed their marketing to remove the fingerprint reader, which didn’t actually work with Ubuntu. I bought that machine solely because they promised me it fully worked with Ubuntu.
Okay, that sucks. Yeah, I bought a refurbished business device
Nowadays with Apple, the bigger issue is the ARM Linux ecosystem being neglected in terms of support rather than the hardware compatibility (that is for M1/M2). The hardware for the most part works except for USB-HDMI and fingerprint (which didn’t work on my HP laptop either).
The Qualcomm stuff is actually coming along, as is Apple. They’re on pace with pretty much any non-raspberry pi SBC.
X13 gen 1 thinkpad with Debian, the touchscreen worked out of the box with no additional config needed
You answered yourself: ThinkPads. Beware of soldered RAM (and other "improvements) in newer models.
To add to this comment. You should look out for the ThinkPad T series (no p or s after the number) if you want ease of repairs and upgrade.
Thinkpads are extremely well documented. For how to repair/replace parts, you need the HMM. Just Google for “Thinkpad t14 Gen 1 HMM” and you should find the official PDF on their site. That will tell you, step by step, how to replace the keyboard.
As for the part itself, you can again check Lenovo’s site for all compatible parts (FRUs) and find the item number and details. While I wouldn’t recommend buying directly from them due to cost, this should give you the information needed to find it elsewhere. eBay has tons of Thinkpads being sold for parts, and many of these will be parted out. You should have no issues finding what you’re looking for.
How easy and expensive would it be to swap this with US English?
On the T14 (not T14s) it is easy. See https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/videos/nvid500443-replacing-your-keyboard-thinkpad-t14-and-p14s-gen-1-and-2-customer-self-service
Seems to be available from ~30USD https://www.amazon.com/Replacement-Keyboard-5N20V44072-5N20V43774-5N20X68864/dp/B0B3RV3LK5
ifixit has genuine parts for ~75USD https://www.ifixit.com/products/5n20v44072-lenovo-laptop-keyboard-genuineLook at the Framework Refurb store.
I got an X280 with 8 GB of RAM a few months ago, works great with Linux. Paid just $175. It even works with Haiku OS! Pic: https://files.mastodon.social/media_attachments/files/113/731/895/755/005/386/original/1b09c5a0d636d9a5.jpg
T14 Gen 2 with Ryzen here. Great machine, no problems at all.
I was lucky to work at a college in their computer warehouse. I got steed discounts on hp laptops and desktops. If you can find a good deal on a hp z book those are fantastic and I ran Linux exclusively on the 5 or 6 I purchased. Easy to work on back than I guess it depends on how new you are looking.
Older MacBooks and MacBook Airs (pre-2018 or so) make awesome Linux machines and have really come down in price. If you can find one cheap, I highly recommend them.
Intel machines later than that have T2 chips and are still good but take a bit more research.
M1 Macs are pretty well supported now but that is a different universe.
Older MacBooks still have that darned WiFi card which you need special proprietary drivers for. And basically nothing in that chassis is standard; everything is Apple-specific if you want to repair it. I don’t recommend MacBooks
Yes, exactly, what attracts me to Framework and ThinkPad is the repairability
Personally, Framework has become a bit too expensive for me. If you’re in the US I’d look at the older Dell precision and HP ZBook workstations from 2020 or earlier, they have amazing specs and go for $400 or so. Fairly repairable because enterprises demanded that they be and gobs of power for anything you want.
You may want to specify what your needs are. What is this for?
For personal use, I will use it just when traveling, as I have a more powerful desktop. Nothing too fancy, a bit of programming, tinkering. Will run probably Hyprland. What’s important is to have 5-6 hours of battery life. I will probably run some containers, YouTube watching, browsing, should be portable and support charging over USB-C.
About the last bit: There are these now. Available for all usual laptop plugs and voltages. Much easier to carry with you than a separate AC brick.
Yes, that’s why I want to have a USB-C charging. I have a 60W GAN charger.
Yeah, but if your dream second hand laptop has everything but USB-C charging, you can easily get such adapter and basically make it USB-C charging capable. 😉
I tend to lose adapters to be honest. And right now I am trying to get everything possible to support USB-C as it is super convenient and the chargers are also really small.
Install the adapter and epoxy it to the laptop :D
This is basically the opposite of a thinkpad/framework, but m1 macbook airs are cheapish second hand, plenty of battery life, USBC, lightweight and durable. Definitely not repairable or upgradable though, so if thats important forget it.
Can install Linux (asahi project), but macos is Unix like enough that I found it good enough.
